January 25, 2022
Do you find it difficult to choose one specific coaching niche to focus on? Or do you struggle to stick to the niche you chose and find yourself overthinking and changing it all the time? It's a common challenge among coaches who believe that defining...
Do you find it difficult to choose one specific coaching niche to focus on? Or do you struggle to stick to the niche you chose and find yourself overthinking and changing it all the time? It's a common challenge among coaches who believe that defining their coaching niche might limit their possibilities to serve and impact people. Thus it's hard to make the decision and stick to it.
Yet, in reality, it's the other way around. A coaching niche offers clarity and focus to your coaching business. What may be really affecting our commitment are our past life experiences and beliefs.
In today's episode, Coach Ajit coaches Mark, a Certified Life Coach student who is struggling to identify and commit to a coaching niche to grow his coaching business. Listen to this coaching conversation to explore why this happens and the step-by-step process to find a coaching niche that you're truly aligned to.
If you resonate with this or have clients with similar challenges, this episode is for you. This coaching conversation has been edited for ease of listening but in essence, keeps all elements.
Certified Life Coach is opening for re-enrollment soon, so go ahead and learn more about this highly-rated certification program to be part of the next batch of certified life coaches by Evercoach.
Key Insights:
Coach Ajit (00:00):
You are listening to Master Coaching with Ajit podcast that inspires coaches to impact the lives of their
clients more meaningfully. I am Coach Ajit and I'm known for coaching high performers, entrepreneurs,
and leaders. I'm also a serial entrepreneur and author of many books. On this podcast, I am answering
your burning questions. I'm also demonstrating and deconstructing behind the scenes coaching sessions.
Coach Ajit (00:35):
And in today's episode, you are listening into a coaching conversation. This coaching conversation was
very interesting. It's with this amazing spiritual man called Mark Kerwin. Who's also part of our Certified
Life Coach community. He is an amazing human being. Who's been doing amazing things across the
world. And we started really interestingly by asking a simple question that you may have asked yourself,
how do I find my niche? And as we continued the conversation, we explored some very interesting
thoughts that came through his experience of life, which I thought was really interesting, intriguing, and
important for you to listen into. If you are, as a coach that have wondered, if you can't stick to a niche,
can't stick to an idea there's exploration that needs to be done. And that exploration led us to find
something interesting about Mark. Find something interesting that may have shaped his life until now,
and will continue to shape his life as he adapts and grow through it.
Coach Ajit (01:34):
So very interesting conversation. I am certain, you're gonna love listening into this conversation. Listen
in with curiosity, not only to listen in for how am I coaching, but also ask those questions to yourself.
You see, if you can create that awareness towards who you are, why you are the way you are, what are
those experiences that shaped your life? How can you learn from these experiences? How can you let go
of that baggage and, and really lean into the learning. You'll find that you'll find more power in your
work that you'll find more alignment in your, in your work. You'll find a lot more growth in your work. So
I'm very curious to see how this conversation impacts your life going forward, listening to this
conversation. And at any point you feel like you wanna hit that rating button. Give us a five star rating.
Go ahead and do so. Sharing a quick story of how this podcast is impacting your life, how this podcast
has been meaningful to your coaching practice would also mean a lot for us. Thank you so much for
tuning in now. Let's listen in to my conversation with Mark. Hey, how are you doing, man?
Mark Kerwin (02:39):
Well, made it St. Lucia. I'm pretty good. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah.
Coach Ajit (02:43):
How's the day been?
Mark Kerwin (02:44):
It's been long Tuesdays. I like go from about seven in the morning till about now with various things,
business calls. Um, I'm very fortunate to be in real estate because it's very flexible, so,
Coach Ajit (02:57):
Oh, that's awesome.
Coach Ajit (03:20):
That's amazing. That's amazing. It's good to be in a spot that feels so comfortable in every way of life.
That's awesome.
Mark Kerwin (03:27):
Yeah. And there's so much I can stack under when it comes to philanthropy and giving and tithing and
we kind of adopted Father Joseph as our patron Saint, whether he is a real historical person or not, we
just use him as a figurehead and um, it's been really nice. Yeah. And my partner she's really into real
estate as well. So we, we have a lot of stuff to do together, which is fun.
Coach Ajit (03:49):
That's amazing. That's amazing. Really good to hear that. So Mark, I, I got a note from you where, while
you booked this podcast episode where we are gonna work together. Um, but before we lean into that, I
just wanna make sure that that's still something that is what is present to you right now. So kind of
leaning in here to check in what would make this coaching session, this conversation, a great
conversation for you.
Mark Kerwin (04:12):
NI think I'm more interested in how do I keep moving forward? So by the time I'm in my sixties or you
know, who knows things could accelerate faster, but I really love the coaching. I've been coaching my
whole life, tennis, swimming lessons. You know, I was always coaching people, um, and bridging my love
of meditation and also my love of exploring things like big ticket things like God's sex money, uh, very
comfortable talking about big subject matters with people on a granular level. And how do I slowly and
surely and consistently, um, offer the coaching without having to be perfect and, and just keep my real, I
wanna keep focusing on as a realtor full time because it's, you know, if I do this for the next 10 years, it'll
I won't have to do anything else after that. I can focus full time on farming, hanging out with my goats
and coaching.
Mark Kerwin (05:09):
So I think that's more been probably in the back of my head for a long time, because I've been following
your stuff and I've got a coach Robin Sharma since 2013 and I've worked a lot with him and I really love
it. I love having mentors, tribe of mentors. Um, I spent maybe 15 years of my life in very intensive yoga
centric, kind of guru dominated, uh, places. And I'm not willing to do that anymore. Like just one person
give my whole life and money and everything to the guru, but I like having multiple oh, absolutely high
performing individuals, you know? And so this it's a nice medium, we're creating a farm and it's like an
intentional community, but it's not a commune cause I've lived through that enough to know that I'm
not currently wishing to live in a commune anymore. There's a lot of wherever there's more light,
there's more dark. So there's a lot of dysfunction too, that goes on in some of those places. So just
enjoying more auto, a little more autonomy and uh, that also figures in with earning more money and
having a little more autonomy over over it.
Coach Ajit (06:12):
I hear you.
Mark Kerwin (06:13):
I think I spent most of my life learning how to live on less and live a radically amazing life in India,
Hawaii, like been to all kinds of amazing places, but I'm interested in learning how to manage
successfully balance wise L living with more, more
Coach Ajit (06:29):
So, so I'm, I'm trying to understand and I will love your love to have you bring your awareness towards,
uh, concentrated direction. So, so I can understand as to what is it that we can achieve today or find
today or work on today, maybe we'll achieve. Maybe we'll not achieve, we'll see how that goes, but at
least work on today. So we could be, I could be a little bit more directed in this conversation. We have
like 45 minutes together.
Mark Kerwin (06:52):
Gotcha.
Coach Ajit (06:52):
Which is a really short period of time to tackle really
Mark Kerwin (06:57):
That's a lot. It's a lot of your time though. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you very much.
Coach Ajit (07:00):
So what I'm hearing as of now, and then help me navigate this. So we have some sense of clarity is that
you are looking to find a resolve to consistently work on your coaching business. Is that, is that what
you're suggestive of when you, when you share what you shared?
Mark Kerwin (07:16):
Yes. So now that I get, when I hear that reflected back to me and I wanna go even more granted or what
it is is I've had a wealth of huge experiences through (unidentified). And you know, I'd like to get really
as deep as I can quickly as I can. And it's the most authentic, genuine niche. It's, it's sort of like farming
and hunting for real estate. A lot of people are, oh, let's try and get the whole town. No, you just need
300 homes around your house to consistently advertise and farm. And, and that's where your business
explodes. And so I could be a general coach later down the road, but I really do wanna discover or
commit to the most niche that I can go because I think it's a, it's a more, uh, clearer path forward and
also allows the people that need that specific skillset or coaching in to bring that out in them.
Mark Kerwin (08:08):
That's kind of probably where this coaching call would be helpful because sometimes I worry, not worry.
I just, I have a lot of, I love a lot of things, you know, uh, and choice can be a limiting factor in life
sometimes too, just like in the past, we didn't have any choice. And that was a limiting factor. Now I
think because of our culture, convenience and choice, we sometimes have too many choices and too many options and too many partners and commitment is something that I'm not afraid of. So I would
like to commit to a particular niche, even though there's lots of other things I could do, but it's okay. I
think no matter what niche I take, I think it will be more effective and for others as well, to find me on
the website and on the biographical page at Mindvalley, if I'm really clear about what it is that I'm
particularly suited for, for them to have a discussion with.
Coach Ajit (09:02):
OK. So that, that sounds fair. And that's kind of how and why you find a niche. The niche is not to limit
somebody's potential. It is actually expand in a particular direction. It's almost like saying let's do one
task first and then we'll do the next task instead of doing all the tasks together. So your understanding is
phenomenal. You're very clear on why you're trying to find the nation for splitting your overall energy
over 10, 20, 50 different items. You're saying, what if I dedicated my resources to a singular focus and
what would it mean for me? What it, what would it mean for my business and will it accelerate overall
outcomes that I am willing and wanting to create in my life? So fantastic approach, uh, Mark my
question before we lean into how and what that niche may look like, my curiosity is in the past, you
have chosen to choose something and then change the direction.
Coach Ajit (09:54):
What has led to that change in direction? The reason why I asked this question is because more often
than not what we have found in our experience of working with coaches, and it's a coincidence that we
are talking about a coaching related subject today, um, we've found, especially in coaching related
subjects or coaches is they sometimes do select a niche, but then they in a few weeks, or a few months
time, they doubt that niche and then they move to another one and then they move to another one.
And usually there's an underlying pattern that is, um, that is causing that it has less to do with the niche
or identification of the niche. It's more to do with a story that has been, um, always present in their lives
or a story that they tell themselves. I'm just curious to, to, to hear or listen into, if there was something
that you've found yourself, because you said you've had many jobs before and either a sense of freedom
takes it away, their sense of something else takes it away. Is there something that you go, well, I have
chosen niches before, and then I changed because of,
Mark Kerwin (10:55):
Well, I think almost the opposite of that in that the one niche that I discovered, like I was when I was a
kid, I played like a ton tennis. I was really focused on competitive tennis. Then I went to India and, you
know, I spent about 20 years sort of focusing on meditation and I think I'm getting through healing it,
but there's definitely a feeling of Icarus getting too close to the sun and getting burned in sense that
giving everything to one thing, including my money and time and life and service was really intense, you
know? And there are benefits to that. I have so many amazing self-realization and actualizations the goal
of practicing those meditations. But it, when dealing in a, like if you're in a hospital, sweet surprise,
someone throws a bed at you to kind of motto that you might hear in places like that.
Mark Kerwin (11:42):
It's not always a place where people that are healthy come there's sometimes people that are very sick
come. And because of that, I think I experienced a lot of that darkness too. A lot of that different people
and different desires to be there. So I'm, I'm a little bit cautious around completely devoting myself to,
you know, one particular focus or person because of that. Now, I mean, now I'm focused really on real
estate. I have been for 15 years and now as a realtor this past year, I got licensed. I'm just carrying on. It makes sense. Everything clicks. I guess what I wanna do is keep moving forward on the coaching side
because I love coaching. I'm doing it anyhow with the teams that I'm building for real estate. But I do see
the time down the road when I would love to bring in a little more income still, but just not have to
travel anywhere.
Mark Kerwin (12:30):
I love not having, I've been to 70 countries. I've been moving most of my life. I'm really starting to feel
inclined, not go anywhere like my front porch and you know, a few places with my dog and, and I'm
pretty happy. So coaching is a great forum to still stay connected. It provides significance and all those
six human needs that Tony talks about, you know, impact growth, certainty, uncertainty, significance,
contribution. Yeah, just like to keep moving forward on the coaching side, but I'm not sure how to
balance it or, or, or not make it become an obsession, so to speak and, and be totally devoted to it while
still being serious about it and giving it a bit of time every month, coming to the coaching conference,
coming, you know, listening in on how, what other coaches are doing and also feeling where's the best
fit between the need of the world. My passion and my skillset. So that icky guy thing is always present in
my mind too, that it's just not all about me. It's also about certain trends that are emerging, you know,
when it comes to how we're navigating our society now. And, and I think things have changed a lot
when it comes to sex and money and God and all these subjects that we're pretty stagnant for a long
time and pretty, pretty much rigid and given to us.
Coach Ajit (13:38):
So Mark, I have, I have two, I think there are two parts to our conversation that we will have to explore.
Firstly, I'd love to explore a little bit more of where does that fear set for you of devouring yourself to
something I, I see where your similar story that you shared, maybe interesting to explore a little bit
further creating anything does require a little bit of devotion. Of course it, it, it, it is not something that
just happens, right. It's deliberate. Uh, so my curiosity would be where is that resistance and is our past
situation or past experience becoming our current reality or is there a learning that we can secure from
it and move forward from there? So that's something that I like to explore. And the second part that I
like to explore is really help you identify that, that, that niche, if I may, to be able to be able to really, uh,
go into something. But I think before we do discovery of the niche, I think my curiosity is what does it
mean for you to devote to something? And how does that devotion look like and what comes up for you
when you think about this devotion?
Mark Kerwin (14:49):
I think of course from being a father now for 17 plus years and, and also being in real estate now for a
longer period of time to see the waves of day to day, having some time away from it, I think I'm, it's fair
enough for me to actually say I'm pretty much over or have gotten healed through that, having the kids
and also running a business in real estate, in different formats, but it's always the same thing. It's always
real estate and investing in asset classes and just being really successful the last 10 years with basically
getting that some, a lot outta nothing, just starting with nothing or minus pretty far in debt when I got
divorced. So, so yeah, I guess I have a very tangible, uh, experience in front of me that shows me, wow,
that is what devotion looks like. It's through thick and it, it's not something it's okay to walk through it
some days it's okay to be sleeping through it some days it's just as long as you keep returning to it and
that it feeds me and that I can feed it.
Mark Kerwin (15:42):
And that it's positive, privately happy, publicly useful. Good for me now. Good later. Good for others
now. Good for them later. Good for the world now. Good later. Yeah. I'd like to bring that. When I look
at how I started in 2007, which is almost 15 years ago, I'd like to have a more conscious journey over the
next 15 years within the coaching world. So that at the end of those 15 years, I'll have had, I'll already
have built up a significant amount of impact and success. If I then choose to do it full time or dedicate
more of my skillset to it, my resources to it. Does that make sense?
Coach Ajit (16:15):
Does it, does my curiosity still is why do you fear devotion? Because what you're saying is that you're
past it and I hear it, but what I also heard it previously is that was your big resistance yeah. In choosing a
need, uh, in choosing even coaching with more dedication. I'm not in any way suggestive of that. That's
what you need to do. That's no, no personal choice. And I'm happy for you to make a decision of saying
right now, I'm gonna put some effort to its real estate build assets and then dedicate a lot more time to
what's coaching in the future. It's absolutely perfect. As an answer, as a, as a direction, my curiosity is
where does that stem from? Because this seems to be a hidden, um, narrative. It may not be more
evident. It may feel like it's complete, but just because it came up, I wanna make sure that we explore it
while we have, well,
Mark Kerwin (17:03):
I'll give you an example. I was at the tree of life with Gabriel cousins for two years. And you know,
people would come through there and I had on numerous occasions, like people come and because I, I
get into certain states, you know, of God consciousness and there's charisma around there's cities,
mystic powers around that. Also charisma, that's all like flies that land on shit can fly. So it's not the
purpose of a spiritual life. It's the love with serve with love. That's the highest, there's no need for
mystic. I don't care about any of that stuff, but they do come depending on what state you're in. And
they attract all kinds of people. And I've had some freaking weird people attracted to me that like are
scary. You know, like one lady wanted to marry me and she was like, following me around and she'd
leave things in the garden that I was looking like, just freaky, fatal type stuff.
Mark Kerwin (17:50):
And yeah, I do. I fear that cult personality, I've seen the downside of it, you know, those show and all,
and all kinds of in the sixties and seventies, Jim Jones char you know, there's that dark element of socalled spiritual life. And I'm, I'm nervous about it. I don't, I don't wanna attract that. I don't want to, I'm
not the guy, you know, like everyone is the guy
Mark Kerwin (18:31):
Like there's no one like you in the universe. So don't, you won't find happiness trying to be anyone else.
And usually the person you're trying to copy, isn't even happy. So, you know, I just am conscious around
that. There is, um, like all things there's cults of personalities that form around people that, you know,
are, are doing great things or impacting people. And then people get attached to the people rather than
the results that they're getting from those people. And I'm nervous about that because I I've seen it happen really quickly. You know? So I don't, I don't want that. There's no joy in that. For me, it it's
actually really uncomfortable. You know,
Coach Ajit (19:08):
That's, that's good that you have awareness to us that that could happen. Most people don't. So my
curiosity would be that somebody who is that aware that this could happen, there's a potential chance
that people could lose the way and stop focusing on the result and focus on the person and become a
fan or whatever you wanna call them. Do you think your awareness to that is probably going to be the
biggest reason it won't happen because you're aware about it, that this could happen and there's no
real challenge.
Mark Kerwin (19:38):
Yes. And actually what I fear the most is behind all that. Like if you ask another why, why that, why that
it's actually, I'm afraid of not being able to say no, and I am getting much better at saying no. No, thank
you. No, thank you. My first, what partner? She followed me around for two years enjoying the, the
ashram that I was at under the guise of being a part of it. But really she just wanted to marry me. She
didn't wanna marry me. She wanted to marry an idea of me. So the whole thing was a lie. And then I, my
gut in my heart said no, but my head was like, started to, you know, she wore me down, basically, I, or
she didn't wear me down. I chose to, you know, not say no and not listen and trust in a PR in something
that's impacted me for the last, you know, 17 years now.
Mark Kerwin (20:21):
I didn't really ever feel any need to have children, everyone in the world's mind. Anyhow. So what do I
there's? No, I never felt that distinction. I probably had a ton of kids in my last life, physical ones, but I
don't really care whose vagina they come out of. It doesn't really, or whose semen they were, you know,
eggs and semen. It's just all who cares. That's a genuine feeling. I have. It's not like I'm trying to make it
up. I really never really, I love my daughters. I'm crazy about them, but I'm not that attached to 'em, you
know, they're, they're just coming through the universe like I am. So I, I don't feel overly the need to
have my own own. Just like every time I look at someone there there's, there's, there's, there's a kid
right there really to love. So...
Mark Kerwin (21:01):
Not being able to say no, not trusting myself and fearing, you know, just also really trusting how unique,
insane I am to everyone else. And that I do know what's best for me. And I can say no. And I know
intuitively through my gut, my heart and my head, what to say yes to as well. That's the big, that's the,
that's the crux there. The fear is not saying no. And I need to say no, that's the fear because I there's still
that desire sometimes to be liked rather than respected. And a friend of mine 10 years ago in business
said to me, you, you, you need, you would do a lot better if you just focused on being respected and not
being liked. And that's, that was, I, I sense. That was true then, but I know it's true now. And, um,
Coach Ajit (21:46):
Is that a fear or is that an area that you can grow into?
Mark Kerwin (21:50):
Yes
Coach Ajit (21:50):
Because learning how to say no is the art of setting boundaries.
Mark Kerwin (21:53):
Setting boundaries, saying no, but also being liked and being okay with it, not being afraid of, you know,
what's this what's gonna come next. You asking me to marry me. Or, you know, I've had several people
ask me to marry them in short periods of time. And it was always like, like a deer in headlights. I was
like, I don't even believe in monogamy or, or, or one marr - I just don't. I probably just don't, it's not my
thing, even though I've been a long term serial monogamist, I just, I don't know anymore. I'm, I'm
curious, I'm hurting 50 is the first time in my life where I've even had chance to slow down and it's like,
yeah, wow. I, I don't really know what I know anymore. And I'm very curious to find out what's true for
me now, if I was very open and listening, and that's why coaching for me, because I'm in such a new
place as well. I feel like I have a lot of experience to give and a lot of really good resources to share with
people without giving them an idea, just giving them lots of choices to choose from. If they ask me about
certain things meditation, or, or how do I start coaching? And while I'm in such a new place, you know..
Coach Ajit (22:56):
Can I, can I ask you to reflect back on something? Yeah. In the interest of our conversation? Yeah. So the
place where we started this conversation was where you said, I find it hard to devote myself to, to
coaching or to something that may feel overwhelming over time. We found reasons for it, why you feel,
so there is some version of fear or concern let's call it where people might like you a lot more than you
want people to fall in likeness or love, uh, with you, you, uh, expressed it could be because in the past
that has happened in the past, that could have been a relationship thing where you were finding it hard
to say no. And then now you're learning the skill of being able to say, no, you're learning the skill of
setting, better boundaries. What I want us to bring our reflection towards.
Coach Ajit (23:44):
So we can, and, and maybe some of these questions you need to reflect on again and again, repeatedly.
So you can get past this hurdle of devotion and the reason why I, it will be important for you to explore
this is because anything great does need some level of devotion. It doesn't have to be completely
devoted where you don't remember anything else. That's, that's, that's a choice that you wanna be that
devoted, or you wanna be devoted enough. There is variety. That's that's, that's how devoted you
wanna be is, is, is a personal choice based on the endeavor itself. But devotion is still required. Interest
is still required, which I don't necessarily see. You have a challenge with, you might be having a little bit
of a block that concerns your, um, say devotion for, for, for lack of different or using the same term to
that one.
Coach Ajit (24:39):
Niche. That one idea, that one philosophy, that one model of coaching. So you can at least create
progress in a significant way in that direction. So my curiosity and my question and my, uh, reflection
back to you for you to further reflect on is to really inquire what would it mean if Mark was that light?
What would it mean? What does Mark have to become? What is Mark version 75.0? That is capable of
that is willing to, that is interested in, that will find a better way to deal with all these nuances that may
have challenged us in the past, but have no reason to be carried into the future. We, we all can carry the
baggage of the past, or we can learn from the baggage of the past and finally put it down. Right? So, so
your, your challenge here, your exploration beyond our conversation, and for anybody that is listening to this recording is for them to explore further as to what is it that it really means to create the next
version of you that allows for all those fears to become obsolete or not important, because we are
creating a version of us and, or a new version of us, and we can all coach ourselves to it.
Coach Ajit (26:00):
We can all learn through experiences and create that new version. What would that version look like?
Like there are beliefs that we have, right? And there are beliefs that are empowering. And then there
are beliefs that are limiting. This is clearly a limiting belief because stopping you to do something that
you're really interested in. So this belief is not useful. Let's create a new version of this belief that is
available to Mark X.0. Right? And for anybody that is listening for their next version, if it's an
empowering belief, you wanna keep it, this is not a empowering belief. This is a disempowering belief.
So, so let's work on that. And I'm sure you'll find that version. You have access to my email. So you can
send me a note as to if something comes through, let's go to the question that you did start with,
because I do wanna explore that with you. And I wanna see if I can work with you to guide you to find
that niche if I may.
Mark Kerwin (26:48):
Can I, may, may I, may I add one thing? Yeah. Just to reflect on what you said. Absolutely. Because I had,
I get a lot of downloads quickly insight. And what I'm realizing too, is that, you know, the (unidentified)
was all about martyrdom. And so artists, peace keepers, peacekeepers, they all ended up having to be
sacrificed shot. You know, Jackson Pollock tortured alcoholic, like the aquarium age to me feels different
than that. And what I truly love doing is talking about joy, peace and freedom. My three highest values,
uh, especially about freedom, freedom first, because without it, you can't choose to love. I'd like to
dedicate more of my life to trying to help leaders like Xi Jinping and Putin and other people to like, like,
see just how miserable they are trying to control these people and to be not for freedom, peace, and
joy, but to be for a fairly large militaristic pharmaceutical paradigm.
Mark Kerwin (27:37):
So I, you know, I'm inspired by Desmond Tutu and I spent time with (unidentified) and Dalai Lama, I'd
really like to move more into speaking at that level to humanity. It's like the people in new Guinea, like
30,000 years ago had a lot of time to pink scores and hang out and play with six. And I'm thinking they're
a primitive society. I don't think so. They were in advanced society cuz they spent a lot of time having
fun. Maybe they lived a little shorter, but like our ideas around advanced civilization is very strange
when I look at what we've created and I'm not getting down on flush toilets and sewers, but that I'd like
to be more using humor and drama or just public speaking is a forum to advocate for peace and
freedom and love and joy just because it's more fun to bring that out in people. So that we'll put that
aside. I just wanted to express that, that through coaching, it also does provide me a forum to
encourage others, to find things in their life that give them freedoms and peace and love and joy. Cause
we need, we just need more of that. We need more happy, alive, awake, aware of people who are ready
to as Ken Wilber says grow up, clean up and wake up or wake up, grow up, clean up or whatever order
or all three. So,
Coach Ajit (28:47):
Oh, thank you for that Mark. So back to the question, based on the download that you just shared and
also the question that you had asked previously, the question that you really wanna inquire, which is
niche. So to set context, niche is a compass it's like finding the direction of travel. It also is true for like any compass. If you start to find the direction of travel and you find out that the direction of travel is not
incongruence with the final destination that you wanna get to, you can change the direction because the
point is not the direction. The point is the outcome, right? The point is the destination.
Mark Kerwin (29:26):
The, or the iteration, right? The iterating as well,
Coach Ajit (29:30):
The iterating. So when we, when we identify niche, what we are really identifying is what is the
immediate direction of travel that I can choose that will lead me to my final destination. The reason for
this context is like yourself, Mark. Most of us who want to impact society in a positive way are expansive
being, we have many capabilities, we have many learnings, we have many expressions and ways of
expression and we would like to do it all, absolutely nothing wrong with that. That's what the
destination may look like. But the journey or the direction of travel is the niche. It's the place to get
started. So we can acquire the audience, the Market, the skills, the understanding to become the person
that we need to become while we are taking this journey. Right? So we are, we are finding direction. So
when we'll work on identifying a niche, Mark, what I am hoping that we will come from is not to find the
perfect direction because the direction will change.
Coach Ajit (30:34):
It has to because the destination is so big. It's so beautiful. That there may be different directions and
paths that will come to you as you are taking the journey. So that's what we need to understand. Firstly,
before we even have a conversation of how to find your niche, because most of us try to find the perfect
niche. There is no perfect niche. Perfect niche is basically the first direction and direction will evolve. If
you look at anybody that you really appreciate as an impact maker in the world, the thing that they did
is they started somewhere and then evolves from it, right? If you appreciate the journey of, uh, say Tony
Robbins, you mentioned his name once, right? So he started somewhere, but he's not there at all. Like
he started by doing a small seminar and going to Jim Rohn's workshop for 27 times or whatever times he
did nowhere close to where he is today.
Coach Ajit (31:31):
Right? My journey is not the same. Vishen, my business partner's journey is not the same. Ken Wilber's
journey is not the same. It's completely different from where we started. And that's because we listened
to the direction and finally found the destination or some version of the destination. We are still, a lot of
us are still very much in our finding the next direction part. And that's absolutely. Okay. Right. So with
this context and with the understanding that you mentioned, you have three very clearly identified
values and that's beautiful because that helps us jump off from a really great place. You said freedom,
peace and joy out of which you said freedom being a really dominant one because it lets you express a
lot more and so on and so forth. Let's use that as a jump off point, let's use the value of freedom as a
jump off point and you can change this later, right? But we are gonna work on a model very specific to
Mark's way of thinking a little bit, uh, but to identify what the niche could be. Right. So what we know is
our core value is safe freedom, right? And because our core value is freedom. Wouldn't you believe that
if we worked in some version of freedom or expression of freedom or helping other people find freedom
would be probably most aligned to our day to day work, which will fire us up. Would you say that to be
true?
Mark Kerwin (32:44):
Can you repeat that? I need to hear it again.
Coach Ajit (32:48):
Yeah, the question really is that if you worked in alignment with our value, a key value or the value or
most important values, do we find more joy in everyday work? And do we feel that we could overcome
any obstacle because it's so ingrained the work that we are doing with us?
Mark Kerwin (33:07):
Absolutely.
Coach Ajit (33:09):
Yes, absolutely. Right. So the first thing, if, if a, if a person does not know their niche, a great way to start
if they have availability and if they have already discovered their values, like you have Mark is to
remember that the first piece of the puzzle is your value because you'll stick to whatever you do
because it's so you like, it's so easy for Mark to work with someone and so congruent and so joyous for
Mark to work with someone that is seeking freedom as an umbrella first, right? Because it's in alignment
with Mark's value and he will speak to it so much more comfortably. Right. And work with it so much
more comfortably. So let's start at freedom now and now let's distill it further. Right? So say you found
freedom as your fundamental now distilling it, you had identified or you suggested there's certain
experiences in your life that created the version of Mark that we are talking to today. Right. You talked
about being married twice, or you, you talked about your two kids.
Mark Kerwin (34:07):
You've been married. Yeah. I've been married once, but my partner of 15 years were, you know, were
life partners were, we're not.
Coach Ajit (34:12):
So you've had two partners, like long term partners. You have traveled to India for 20 years and had
been in a meditation center camp. How are you gonna call it? And there are many experiences like this.
Would you say there were maybe three or four definitive experiences that changed the way Mark is
today? Absolutely. Right. So what we wanna lean on, secondly, first, once you've identified your values,
second is to find that definitive experiences, those definitive experiences will usually follow a pattern or
there will be some experiences that are too similar to each other. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna project a
little bit Mark. So, so if I have that liberty, I know, I don't know your full life story and we don't have the
time to,
Mark Kerwin (34:55):
Yeah. And I, and I just got back from hiking with my best friend of, since I was two, since we were in the
cradles together. So I have a 48 year relationship with him and we just, I just spent time with his kids
Coach Ajit (34:56):
Yeah. And I, and I just got back from hiking with my best friend of, since I was two, since we were in the
cradles together. So I have a 48 year relationship with him and we just, I just spent time with his kids
Coach Ajit (36:04):
48 year old. 48 year friendship is unheard of in many ways. Right? And who wouldn't want a friend like
that?
Mark Kerwin (36:14):
And we're not just like, right. I just went to their community kitchen where they're using a poem. I wrote
25 years ago as the main thing that people see when they come into that community kitchen. So it's like,
we're still evolving as we're still motivating. He's bringing train from Banff or Calgary to Banff and doing
development with native people. And we're still very much, it's weird. We always just keep bumping
into each other and we're still giving and receiving from each other. So
Coach Ajit (36:43):
Yeah. So what, I'm what I'm hoping that we, we, there's a pattern that's forming and this may be just a
pattern I'm reflecting on.
Mark Kerwin (36:51):
This is good. I never would've thought it might be others.
Coach Ajit (36:52):
Yeah
Mark Kerwin (36:53):
It's it's I think it also has to do with loyalty.
Coach Ajit (36:55):
It might yeah. Could be, could be. So what we are really trying to do is we are trying to find that
undertone, that undercurrent, that thing that is obvious, not so obvious in your life. It's like once you
really sit down with it and say, what are those defining moments? What does it really say about my
being? It'll give you a direction of travel now in congruence with your value in your direction of travel.
Now, all we really wanna find, I mean, there are many other elements, but the thing that we can, if we
can find is can we somehow related to a Market need. Because you know, it is, it could be about
friendship. It could be about loyalty. It could be about relationship. It could be about any of those. It has
to somehow show or integrate freedom into the model of teaching, because that would give you fire
and would also also mean, and freedom is a big value for a lot of people.
Coach Ajit (37:45):
So it also aligns with value of your potential clients. Now, what we look for is can we make it profitable,
right? Can we make it even if not profitable, at least sustained. So in time we can make it profitable,
right? So even if it doesn't hit profit immediately, if at least you can generate revenue on it. Now, while
we are talking about this guess where relationship is very important in a person's life, it's important for
companies mm-hmm
Mark Kerwin (38:28):
Ruckus. That's a good word, right? It's a real Don my grandmother would say,
Coach Ajit (38:32):
I'm best friends with your grandma. Uh, our relationship has been 80 years, uh, our lifetime, uh, anyway,
yet it, what I'm really trying to say is it is important, right? It's something that relationships have been
shaken with the amount of time that we had been ended up investing with each other and spending
with each other. And if you were not willing to do the work or you hadn't done the work, it would have
been a problem. So it definitely did become a real problem for a lot of people. So that's another piece
that we can lean into, which of course is another profitable piece. It could be that more people are
single today than it has ever been because people are finding it hard to really build a relationship, right?
Yeah. This is, this is, these are all true data and information. It's, it's, it's, it's not unheard of people are
getting married late or they're not getting married, or they're not interested in getting married or even
being in a relationship for long term because they fear it in some way or another right. Or their
paradigm has shifted so much. They, they can't appreciate a relationship, uh, over a long period of time.
Even if subconsciously they would really want one.
Mark Kerwin (39:34):
Yeah. And we all have cats and dogs, but we here, we're getting less and less human prints. You know,
not the say anything wrong. I love my cat, my dog, but I still think there's value in human relationship
too. You know,
Coach Ajit (39:44):
There's value. And some people know that there is value. They just don't know how to do it. They don't
have the direction and guidance that one needs to be able to have a relationship like that. And it it's
happening generationally after generation, because what previous generations knew about building and
keeping a relationship, we tend to forget. Uh, and so we, we lose that traction. So there is a Market
need for what you may have an opportunity with just that one dimension that we explored without
really diving deep into your true capabilities. Now, what we really wanna do here, Mark is we wanna
first, like we said, we found the value that was already congruent to you. Then we went ahead and
looked for your life experiences. I wanna remind us so we know everybody who's listening as well. That
it's not just a pick. The first thing that came to your mind, it's like saying, okay, which one?
Coach Ajit (40:32):
What are the different life experiences? Now you go and ask, is there a Market potential for this? Are
there people trend-wise looking for an opportunity of growth in that area, that Market that is there
availability. And once that happens, there are other questions to ask. The next question to ask is, do you
have access to such a Market? Do you have access to people that may be interested in a relationship
program or coaching? Do you have access to people or companies that may be looking to build loyalty
with their team members and work with somebody who can guide them through it? The reason why
access is so important is because when the rubber hits the road, we do wanna be able to see that there
is some return on time invested, right? And one is of course the joy of coaching that is the first it return
on time invested.
Coach Ajit (41:23):
But because we all have families and cats and dogs and visions of ourselves of doing things, we do want
some financial backing there as well. Right? So if the, when the rubber hits the road and there's no
money to be made, sometimes you may fall back into saying this doesn't work. Right? So it's important
for us to also recognize that do I have access to people, places, organizations, groups, events, that I
could generate real clientele in. So this coaching opportunity, this opportunity of me impacting the
world also is rewarded by financial freedom for myself, right? So you wanna identify that. And if this test
fails where you're like, oh, I don't have access to anyone or anything. You wanna look at the other
opportunities that you had as well. And see if one of them has a chance for you to create financial
freedom. And this is why it's so important. The context I was setting for why niche is a direction at the
destination yeah. Is because you can change the direction if it's not financially rewarding. Right. But if
you think of it as this is the definitive, right, then you're gonna find it so hard to change.
Mark Kerwin (42:30):
Well, here's the thing, real, estate's a trillion dollar industry all over the world. Everyone talks about real
estate. Everybody, you just say real estate and people are like, what? Oh, you know? Um, and there's a
lot of people in that Market and a lot of people have money. So I was even thinking like, I wrote this
down while you were talking, finding stability and freedom in a changing chaotic world. That could be a,
like a free meetup or something like that because people do want stability, but they do want their
freedom that certainty and uncertainty parallel. And that's one thing I've been very good at finding is I
do have these extremely long relationships with people, but, you know, had the chance to do everything
I ever wanted to do. Really, you know, whether it was sleeping on a bus in Nepal or climbing in the
Himalayas, or, you know, I went and did it and didn't have a lot of money
Mark Kerwin (43:16):
And, but along the way, I don't think there's anyone I've ever met that I haven't stayed in touch with.
And that if I reached back to them, they're like really happy to hear from me. So I've had a really nice
impact on the people I've met over a lifetime since I was a child. Like even my brother was like,
remember I spilled my drink and you just gave me yours. When we went to see star wars in 77 and my
other best friend was like, I remember we were in a race and I fell and we just waited for me. And you're
like, you didn't give a shit about winning and you just wanted to hang out and cross the finish line
together. So, and that was like, we still talk about that. No one knows who won that race. We won the
race cuz we, you know, cuz of the way we chose to end it. So that's nice to actually hear me say that out
loud. I think having been through a lot of
Coach Ajit (43:58):
That could be another direction. Right? Yeah. And that's, that's why knowing that niche to the direction
is so important is because maybe the balance that you find that is most attractive to you that has some
Market potential is freedom and stability at the same time, the, the contradiction and alignment of both
of them and maybe that's the direction and the niche that you will start with. Now, the, now the key
here is to know what's your number one factor that will make a niche work or not work for you. Right?
Because what will happen again is like we said, we already discovered two different niches that you
could get into. How do you choose, right? What's the determinant, what's the tiebreaker because there
might be four or five for you, for other listeners as well that you need to define your tiebreaker. And you
can define your tiebreaker even before you start doing this exercise.
Coach Ajit (44:46):
For example, the tiebreaker for me in today's situation of my life is it absolutely must serve my value.
Right? It's love and service is my two primary freedom is my third most important value helping my
fourth, most important value, right? So it needs to serve love and service. And if it doesn't do that, I am
not interested. Right. I, I'm not gonna do it. Even if it makes me more money. Right. If I don't, if I don't
feel the love, if I don't feel like I can do an of service, I don't wanna do it. Right. So that's my tiebreaker,
right? You need a tiebreaker and the tiebreaker can be money. The tiebreaker can be impact. The
tiebreaker can be size of community. The tiebreaker can be anything. It does not matter. It does not
have to be our value. It just needs to be present to you that that's gonna break the tie because that is
what most often than not causes us to not take action towards any of the niches that we find is because
we think, but I would love to do this, this, this, and this
Mark Kerwin (45:41):
Can't do anything we stop.
Coach Ajit (45:44):
Yeah. Yeah. And we stop thinking about them as direction. We start thinking about them as this is what I
will do for the rest of my life. That's not what you will do for the rest of your life. That's what you're
gonna do until the job of that direction, that niche has served. And then you will find something else.
Mark Kerwin (45:58):
Yeah. I mean, does that make sense? We don't ever end our life is eternal. So I think getting to the heart
of that transcend then loving service really doesn't matter what you do. Like as long as you're doing it
with love, like you could just, I could spend the rest of my life sweeping the front porch and I'd probably
give a bigger impact to the world. If I did that with pure love service, then all of the books and speeches
and I've been around enough, SAS. I mean the original crack was that I grew up at five years old beside a
Zen master who was my godfather. And when I would go to see him, sometimes he would be in a
trance. He would be not, you would be in eternity. And I, I couldn't, I didn't have the languaging to
describe what I was seeing, but I felt it like you, when you're in the presence of people that are doing
that, then you, you feel it's like it is their auras bigger and it is palpable.
Mark Kerwin (46:44):
And so ever since then, there's, you know, then I was in Nepal when I was like 18 and I saw several
(unidentified), you know, just their eyes were in eternity and you can't, that just blew my world apart.
Like you can't go back after that. It's you're done. So the nice thing is that I, I, that's kind of what I
wanted to help it spark with others is because, you know, once we get away from bodily identification, the, the root problem of every problem in the world is identifying the body. And the mind is self, right?
The mind gets us down, all kinds of problems. Technology ahead of wisdom. The body has all these
never ending desires, never ending desires and labels, lesbian, gay, straight, black, white, and any of
those labels are describing a temporary object. That's actually dead by nature, but it's a very valuable
tool and vehicle to be in while you're in it. It's not that I'm not criticizing the body, but you know, it does
once you leave, it's sort of like, everyone's like, Ooh, get that thing, you know, put that thing in the
burner there. Well, you it's stinking up the bed. Um,
Coach Ajit (47:53):
So, so with the niche that, that we've identified, we found the, the four determinants, the five
determinants, at least in context of our conversation, Mark, and I would love for you to explore that
further, uh, and see what really rings true for you and the direction that you wanna travel. And, and with
that, at least we have had some direction to its firstly identifying why is it that you resist, uh,
commitment to a thing or not
Mark Kerwin (48:17):
Here's thing? I think through our conversation, I've realized that I don't don't fear commitment at all. I'm
very committed, actually, a very loyal and committed. Amazing. And actually I just do like having
occasionally originality and, and uncertainty to help me remind me of how wonderful my certainty is
and my stability. I think that's just very common in human beings actually. So
Coach Ajit (48:41):
That's beautiful.
Mark Kerwin (48:42):
Yeah, this is good.
Coach Ajit (48:43):
So that's a good realization. That's a good takeaway. It's huge is to even recognize that that's the thing
that you think you don't have, like devotion is the word that you used is actually you do have it, you just
seek some variety, which is a very different challenge to work with. Uh, not even challenge, just a
different exploration to have versus trying to think that that's a hindrance. So that's beautiful. That
recognition came to you. And then we also of course discussed how you could potentially look at
identifying your niche. Uh, we, we covered some of the steps. Yep. Uh, we have a whole podcast
episode that does cover how to identify your niche. I'll invite you to go listen. Yeah.
Mark Kerwin (49:18):
There may be a few more steps. Something else is.
Coach Ajit (49:21):
Yeah. Yeah. There are just a few more so you can, uh, listen to that and I'll send you the link for it. So
you can identify that further, uh, that, and that, that wraps our conversation. At least from the point of
view of the discussion that we wanted to have today. Isn't that great. Now, while listening in, you might
have gotten curious as to, Hey, what is that podcast that you're talking about, Ajit, where you give
further steps to finding an niche? Well, that's episode number 53. Go ahead and go to the Master
Coaching with Ajit podcast on whatever podcasting platform you're listening this to, and go to episode
53. If you wanna get a full understanding of how to identify your niche and, and do those steps to find
that niche that may finally be something that you will love, appreciate, be congruent to, and also find
profitable.
Coach Ajit (50:10):
Thank you so much for tuning in today. This is Coach Ajit and you are listening to Master Coaching with
Ajit. Hey, if you wanna join other amazing coaches like Mark into learning a very unique model that I
have developed in partnership with my business partner, Vishen Lakhiani. Between me and Vishen,
we've impacted hundreds of thousands of lives of individuals. And we are very interested in taking these
methodologies, these models out in the world. So more and more lives can be impacted. If you feel
congruent to what Mark was talking about, if you feel congruent to my work, this podcast, or Vishen's
work, I invite you to check out Certified Life Coach. We are currently promoting enrollment into this
program. You'll find a link below this podcast episode, so you can go ahead and find more information.
I'll be looking forward to seeing you on Certified Life Coach.