64. How To Sell With Love with Jason Campbell - Evercoach - By Mindvalley

February 22, 2022

64. How To Sell With Love with Jason Campbell

So, what are the key elements that make a truly successful coach? As in any career, when you’re just starting out as a coach, limiting beliefs will show up and try to hold you back in your journey to success. But the more you bring awareness to...

Why do coaches struggle so much with enrollment conversations? So many coaches fear selling so much, they avoid having enrollment conversations which, in turn, creates 0 clients and no business growth. But the truth is, sales is a skill like any other and you can master it.

In today’s episode, our special guest is Jason Marc Campbell, international speaker, host of Selling with Love Podcast (formerly Mindvalley Podcast, Superhumans at Work), and author of the newly released “Selling with Love” book. Jason’s mission is to transform the world by teaching companies to care and helping individuals fall in love with sales.

Jason shares several game-changing insights on what sales really means, the 5 loves of selling, why love is the cornerstone to closing enrollment conversations, and how to implement these ideas into your coaching business.

If you’re currently struggling to enroll new clients or are lacking the confidence to get started, this episode is exactly what you need to learn how to sell with love.

Key Insights:

  • What is sales?
  • The most effective way of selling.
  • “No” is not a rejection of you, it’s a rejection of the product.
  • Why self-love practices are the solution.
  • How to gain confidence at selling.
  • The shame and guilt blockages, and how to overcome them.
  • Selling from a place of lack vs love.
  • How coaching is a sales process.
  • Learn more about Jason Campbells’ book “Selling with Love”

Coach Ajit (00:00:00):
You are listening to Master Coaching with Ajit podcast that inspires coaches to impact the lives of their clients more meaningfully. I am Coach Ajit and I'm known for coaching high performers, entrepreneurs, and leaders. I'm also a serial entrepreneur and author of many books. On this podcast, I am answering your burning questions. I'm also demonstrating and deconstructing behind the scenes coaching sessions.

Coach Ajit (00:00:35):
And today's episode is focused on something that you may be struggling with for a very long time. How many of us says at one point in a coaching career said, I hate selling. I just don't wanna sell. I just don't wanna enroll. Well, if that has been your situation, if that is a mindset that you have operated from until now and have recognized, and that might be the reason why that you're currently struggling to have enough clients while I have the perfect coach for you today, I have a guest on the podcast. His name is Jason Campbell. Jason Campbell is a masterful human being who helps coaches and other individuals really fall in love with their own sales system. He has a new book that just dropped. The name of the book is "Selling With Love: Earn with integrity and expand your impact." And today's episode on the Master Coaching with Ajit podcast is a masterclass in selling sales, falling in love with sales, really understanding how enrollment happens and what is it that you can do to become a masterful coach that enrolls beautifully where your clients actually love the enrollment process.

Coach Ajit (00:01:44):
I know these promises may seem a little extraordinary and a little over the top, but I know Jason and I recorded this podcast for you. So I know that you are going to absolutely love this conversation. You're gonna probably wanna save this conversation and this conversation again and again, as you get better with sales, this conversation is gonna be powerful and transformative for you. So get your headphones so we can dial right in with Jason Campbell. So Jason, today, I'm so excited to talk about what we are talking about, because I know this is a big challenge for my community. And if there were to be few people that I would shake out of my pocket and say, the best people to talk about sales? I would, I would definitely pick your name first. Sales is something that I know is a sensitive topic to our listeners. So tread carefully. It can ruffle feathers. Sometimes it creates, uh, deep insecurities and, uh, and creates a lot of challenges even before they'll take the first step towards it. So before I even get into, how can anybody get better at sales? Let's define what is sales from your point of view?

Jason Campbell (00:02:53):
Well, thank you AJ, for having me. And I think, uh, yeah, when we start with the definition, it can change a lot of behaviors, right? And sales. Um, it's fascinating because right now there's actually a big shift that feels that's happening in the world of sales. On a global level, I was talking with a lot of sales experts and this whole ethos of the manipulative douchey, uh, you know, I, I have to pick on the common one, the Wolf of wall street, style of sales. There's a massive rejection of understanding that that's not the effective way of selling and this literature that's coming out these days. There's so many people writing books, which are, you know, how to sell, like we're humans selling from the heart, um, selling from love or sell from love. And now I have a book coming out, which is Selling With Love.

Jason Campbell (00:03:40):
I was fascinated by how the universe seems to be birthing this message to the masses right now. And I'm just one of the evangelists that's preaching about it. So I do have a unique definition and what's fascinating about it is that it's not a new trend in sales. It's actually a way that the most effective sales have always sold. And most people didn't pay attention because of this negative biases we've had around sales. So let me give you a definition that won't ruffle too many feathers, but it's at the core of everything that I write about is selling is nothing more than an energy exchange between conscious beings. So you're basically exchanging energy and I use the term energy because it can include a money. And if you have any, you know, uh, charges, when it comes to money, understanding what it is, what it means, exchanging it.

Jason Campbell (00:04:28):
If you break it down to its fundamentals, it's just a store of energy. And so let's stick to this definition. We have money could be energy products and services in order to be created, require energy. And so that is energy as well, time active energy. And so everything within the transaction can be broken down into this unit of energy. Now here's the kicker, and this is really where I want people to be able to embrace selling in a beautiful way. Is that when you know, what you offer is so much more than what you ask in return, the emotion of love is what balances the equation, because emotions is also an energy. And in every sales transaction, there's an energy on the buyer side. And there's an energy on the seller side. And again, when you know what you offer so much more than what you ask in return, both parties feel love and the transaction is ultimately successful.

Coach Ajit (00:05:20):
Break that down a little bit more for me and for our listeners. So you said everything of course created through energy, right? And you said something to the tune off that when you are, what you're offering is, is greater than the energy that you're exchanging for. Am I, am I phrasing this correctly?

Jason Campbell (00:05:41):
When you know, what you offer is so much more than what you ask in return. And so let's, let's use a very basic example. So people can get a context, let's say you're selling coaching, right? And you know, for a fact that when someone spends six months of coaching with you, you've studied that person. You understand their situation and the transformation value that they're gonna have. You can take a very educated guess based on your experience, based on your understanding of that customer, that it'll be valued, let's say at $10,000, like the value that'll be created in their life from having coaching is gonna be 10,000. If we use something less subjective, we can suit, use something more objective such as if I can actually go ahead and do a business service of consulting, I'm going into a business. And I know that if I work with this individual and their performance goes to an, a level it'll generate 50,000 in revenue for the business.

Jason Campbell (00:06:34):
Well, the training that I offer actually costs 10,000. And in this case, the productivity will go to 50,000. And so this is where the balance of the equation is like, wow, you're providing five times more value than what you're charging. And so when the transaction is done and the, the product is delivered, then the balance of the equation is basically you'll feel like you've done a loving, good job, and you've taken care of a client. And the client feels like they've made a good investment. And so on both sides, the transaction is successful, not just from the moment of closing, but even after the moment of delivery.

Coach Ajit (00:07:05):
Jason. So if I was to, so, so I hear you on that. And I, and I totally see how one would objectively price themselves or set up the energy exchange based on the predictable or even, uh, actually calculatable outcomes. But a lot of times our clients are, are coaches that are in life coaching or, or health coaching where the outcomes are not necessarily, they they're quantifiable, but they are far exceeding than math could take. You. Like, for example, if you save somebody's marriage, what is that worth? Millions of dollars. If somebody's health comes back, that's worth millions of dollars to that person. How is it that you kind of get your mind around that energy exchange to be able to lean into the idea of this concept of, Hey, I'm trading in energy.

Jason Campbell (00:07:59):
Yeah. And let's go back to the first example that was intangible so we can break it down even further. So again, I've made the assumption here that the value that I would do in personal coaching would be $10,000. How do I come up with that value? Right? Did I just pull it out of a hat? Well, in order to understand the value that you'd deliver for somebody there's five loves in selling that I speak about. And one of those that are one of the most important is loving the buyer. And the best way to show love to the buyer is actually to understand them. So if you are in coaching and you can't really put a pulse on what is the value you provide to your client, then there's a gap in your level of understanding of that client. You've just used some very relevant examples, such as what would happen if there was a divorce, right?

Jason Campbell (00:08:44):
Well, the other alternatives from healing yourself may look and can be quantifiable based on the cost of what that event would look like. And this doesn't need to come from you. This is actually questions that you can ask as you're doing a consultative sailing process with a prospect asking them, wow, it sounds like you're looking to get some support in your personal life. It looks like the marriage might be on the rocks. What would it look like if we didn't fix this issue? And then you can start seeing what is the cost of inaction, which is a term that Alex Mandossian spoke about on a podcast I did before, which is really making you understand what is happening. If they don't take action. And there you start being able to quantify value because the action that they will take will save them all this money.

Jason Campbell (00:09:27):
Now there's something to keep in mind here, which is, if you are selling with love, love is not a hundred percent. It's not risk free, but there's a leadership that we take. There's a boldness that we take in taking leadership and taking the risk of maybe we're getting it a little wrong. Maybe the value that you'll provide for that client might not be 10,000. It might be 8,000. Hey, it might be a hundred thousand, depending on the client. See for each specific client that you do business with each buyer that you encounter, the exact value that they have from the services that they'll get from, you might be a little different, but if you're coming from a place of love, you're willing to study them enough so that you can get an idea of where that cluster would fall. And then you're willing to take a risk and be bold in selling it because you know, they'll be in your good hands.

Jason Campbell (00:10:19):
And I'm speaking probably to the most amazing audience here, Ajit, which is if it would so happen that you would sell your services. Let's say for $1,000, you took an estimate that it would give them value of 10. And you realized from the first conversations that it's actually not giving them as much value as what they paid for. I know that your listeners are gonna do what is necessary to make things right by the client. And so all this hesitation of us not providing enough value actually comes back to working on our own self love and understanding that if you are really confident in the solution that you provide, if you truly care about helping people and you've taken the time to understand them, you're starting to lower those risks, but there's always gonna be a little risk, which I think is one of the things that cause anxiety in sales, but just like love nothing's a hundred percent, but the risk is worth taking.

Coach Ajit (00:11:10):
Absolutely beautifully. Put Jason, Jason, you said you mentioned something that, that there may be, uh, a case to be made about self love when the conversation is about sales. Tell me more about that.

Jason Campbell (00:11:24):
Well, if you think about it, my, my whole book is about selling with love. And the first part is interesting because it's actually just to make people understand that you don't need to hate sales. Like we mostly have, I love hate relationship with sales. It's it's like, wow, I really hate it. I'm not getting the results. So the first part of the book is all about just getting rid of the hate and maybe making a case for liking sales. But again, it's a bit of a trap because then in part two, we go over the five loves of selling. And the very last chapter of the book is on self love. That's the last love of sales, but I, I often laugh with, with a bit of cheekiness here, but the entire book in essence prepares you for the last chapter, because at the end of the day, the self love is what really holds most people back when it comes to sales.

Jason Campbell (00:12:14):
The thing with sales is it puts you and forces you in such a vulnerable state. I mean, you will have people tell you no to your face. You will face rejection and you will maybe take it personally and it will hurt. And then you have to go out and try again and try again. So the cycle of connections with humans proposing a solution, seeing and having an understanding of them, having them accept or reject is basically extremely quick human relationship development with a very high likelihood that the answer will be no. And so if you haven't done the work for self love, if you've not standing in your energy, realizing that the no is not about rejection, it's actually because the product or service you're offering is just not looking to solve their needs at this moment. So then you go to you go back to the drawing board.

Jason Campbell (00:13:05):
You understand them better, but it's not a rejection of you. So if you want to be a peak performing salesperson, matter of fact, if you wanna be a peak performing human well there's practices that you wanna bring into your life for self love. What I personally enjoy working with the community of coaches is you have all the tools and you have your community of people that really help you with this self love issue. So you can start exploring it. And I believe that's one of the biggest journeys that you go through when you become a coach, is I can sell, send you the best sales tactics. I can give you the best training. I could even be the one to sell your product and service. We associate sales as the reason why a lot of things get stuck. Well, let's take that all out of the equation.

Jason Campbell (00:13:47):
Imagine that I, and the person who's selling your coaching services, would you still have anxiety with clients coming in and you start realizing maybe we need to look at what is really the product that we're selling, which actually is the third love in selling is loving the product, but it's different when it comes to coaching consultants. And self-employed because the product is you. And so you go back to the self-love is the product that we have genuinely producing results. Have we packaged it in a way that is easy for clients to understand and to get transformation with are everything that's put in there, truly serving the needs of who we want to serve. And so it becomes a very intimate process, but at its root, you always are working on yourself. You're developing your coaching skills and you're developing your own self worth in the process of understanding that you are enough, that rejection is not a rejection of you.

Jason Campbell (00:14:37):
It's a rejection of the product. And this one, I love aji from the, um, the four agreements. It's one of my classics that I always go back to. Don Miguel Ruiz speaks of one of the four agreements is always do your best. And this is a message I really want bring home for most people who are in sales is regardless if you have very little sales training, regardless if you're just beginning at your coaching career, the only action you're ever doing is your best at that time. And if you understand the mindset that even if you're just a beginner and you're starting, that is your best for now. And then you can improve. You can learn, you can practice and no one's expecting anything less than your best yet. You're always operating at your best. And there's no other judgment aside from the judgments you put on yourself. And that judgment itself holds you back and is gonna be that voice that paralyzes some in the sales process. You're not an imposter, you're doing your best. And you're always on a journey to do some improvements, and that'll be your best for tomorrow.

Coach Ajit (00:15:34):
Beautiful, beautifully put what I've found Jason, in, in our experience, working with coaches and even with our clients, is that most of the time, the tools and techniques are available through the Google guides. You don't actually need the information. Information is not, what's stopping you. You do need the information, but that's not, what's stopping you. It's the, it's the work that needs to be done for that information to be translated into the life of that individual of that person, which is so true to exactly what you mentioned here as well. Like, Hey, it's not about just knowing what's the sales script per se. And maybe that's what we fear is the sales script. Uh, but it is more about knowing if there is that self love that has been implemented in your life or the practices have been brought to in your life. So you can experience the, the, the life of proposing your idea and the en energy exchange that it is, uh, that is, that will create the sale.

Coach Ajit (00:16:33):
So Jason, just so we can round out this topic, what, what, what are some of the ideas that you propose for our listeners? And of course, anybody who wants to get the full depth of any of this at any point, we'll link up the book that Jason just released below this podcast episode, go ahead and check it out. At any time, you can get a special offer for it right now, as it's, it's releasing right around this time. Uh, but while people are here and while they're listening, Jason, what are some of the ideas that you propose for new coaches, even seasoned coaches that may be struggling to get out of their head and be able to actually go out and do that effort of doing their best and, and making their first transaction, or at least making their first offer. What are some of those, uh, self love practices that you suggest they start with?

Jason Campbell (00:17:17):
I think your confidence in the sales and your competence in, in sales actually is developed with some practice. Um, there is some exposure that is necessary. And so what I often suggest to people, if sales is the only isolated incident of what is not working, everything else is great. You have a great product. You have, um, you know, you have clients possibly in the pipeline. Uh, you know, that what you deliver is great value. You've isolated it for sales. I often get people to do a bit of an exercise to see if this is truly the case is find yourself. Like, what would it look like if you had to sell someone else's product that, you know, as a guarantee is going to transform their lives. And I want you to do this as a thought experiment to see if you would have those same hesitation, selling someone else's products versus your own.

Jason Campbell (00:18:08):
And what you'll probably realize is like, and Ajit, I, from this, I have struggles when it comes to selling myself because the work never stops. So if I'm working at Mindvalley, which I did for quite a long time, and I had to sell a product, it was so easy, right? Because that responsibility for delivery was with a company that I had, faith was going to deliver something amazing. Yet when I sell myself, I realize that there's even more responsibility that will fall on my shoulders. There's a bigger chance that maybe I'm gonna disappoint people. And so there's a bit added pressure. And so when I start to actually see, what would this look like if I was selling something other than myself and seeing where those gaps lie, you're gonna be able to quickly dis- like discover what are the self-love areas that you would want to look into investigating a little further.

Jason Campbell (00:18:55):
And so in this case, getting coaching yourself, getting that support the morning routines, I mean, I could get into some of those, like meditation, breathwork, journaling, journaling being the most powerful one, but the, the self love is really just jumping into personal growth and then uncovering all these little demons that are in your subconscious and pulling them up one at a time, which is essentially what you'll end up doing a lot of times with the clients that you're gonna serve. So you need to be going on your own journey as well. I've had one, a student that, uh, was looking for some sales advice, uh, for a specific product. I was very aware of the product was the product that I had went through myself. And she, she came to me and this is gonna be maybe a little controversial. Maybe you'll have a different opinion on this, Ajit.

Jason Campbell (00:19:36):
But, um, I had my own values on this, whereas that they came to me, they're like, I'm trying to sell to these people. I was like, okay, you have a target market. And they're like, the product is actually a product that they've licensed. The framework that they licensed that was very effective. I was like, okay, that's good. I like this product as well. And they're like, but I feel like an imposter. And I said, okay, well, let's, let's unpack that a little bit. Why do you think you feel like an imposter selling this product that, you know, has a great delivery and I'm thinking it's maybe an issue about self love and, and they answered, well, I feel like an imposter because, uh, although I've been certified to be a practitioner for this practice, I've actually never completed the practice. I've never actually done the work that I'm telling other peoples to do.

Jason Campbell (00:20:21):
And so I said, well, I'm sorry to say that the reason you're feeling like an imposter, that guilt or shame that might be coming here is because you, you, you kind of are, and I'm sorry to be so blunt, but if you're gonna be practicing something or preaching something that you haven't done the work yourself, it's gonna come across as a hypocrite. And I know there's so much more that you wanna do. Like if you truly believe in the impact you wanna make with the practice that you preach, you should complete it as well. And this one is where I, I, I don't know if there's differences of, of opinion here, but I'd love to know your thoughts on it, Ajit, because if you're gonna go out there and do coaching proposing solutions, which is at the core of what you want to sell, I think that there is a duty for you to actually follow your own tools and talk about your own experiences with it. What do you think?

Coach Ajit (00:21:07):
I, I, I agree with you, you have to, if you're going to propose an offer and that offer can be with somebody else's framework your own framework, however, it is the, the thing that you don't have to do, which is to perfect the system, because there is no perfect system. So you'll always find the framework, especially in coaching because human psychology, we are learning all the time, something new biology, we are learning something all the time. And because of that, all frameworks evolve and your understanding of the framework evolve. So there is no point in saying or waiting for, oh, I must implement this moment to moment in my life. Uh, so that level of implementation, very few people are able to achieve. And you shouldn't wait for that moment for you to be able to make an offer around what you are, training, coaching, and offering services on, but should you at least practice what you preach?

Coach Ajit (00:22:02):
Should you at least know that it works for you and for a few clients before you make an offer? Absolutely. Yes. I mean, otherwise you will be selling stuff that you read somewhere and you will try to make an offer around it. And it's never like, it's, you're never gonna be able to make a good offer anyways, and it's not gonna sell. If you have never actually experienced the benefit of it, you could be the best salesman in the world. You, you need to believe in the product, like you said, loving the product. And how do you love a product? The way you love a product is by actually seeing holy shit. This is what it did for me. I remember my early times at mind value, and I just started the journey. I, uh, I was, uh, it's like 12, 13 years ago now, but at that time I was, uh, I was new to sales, especially online sales.

Coach Ajit (00:22:51):
I had no idea how to do it. And, uh, one of the things that I found when I came to mind value was personal development. Because again, I was very new to the idea of personal development. And I come in and I am trying to sell these things. And as I look through them, I'm like, I don't know what these are. Like, I can't, you know, like I don't, I was just selling whatever somebody else told me to write. I would write it and put it up on the internet and it was sell. But I was like, this is not making any sense because I have no idea how to sell it. I don't know who my customer is. I don't know who and what is the benefit they're getting? And then there was a mentor of mine very early on in my mind valley career that I've often attributed a lot of my, uh, journey around personal development.

Coach Ajit (00:23:31):
His name is Juan Martegui. He's a phenomenal entrepreneur himself. And Juan said, um, why don't you do a little experiment? Uh, why don't you go ahead and do these products? And why don't you go ahead and experience this thing that you talk about? Why don't you read this book? And I remember reading a very odd book at that time. Um, I, I, I forget the name right now, but that was a book about how different things that we would think are fringe ideas or ideas that are, that are like, they don't make sense to us person that has not studied the world of personal transmission, because it's all new science. It was just a book about that. And I was like, wow, that's amazing. And as I read through it, I started doing those experiments myself. And I was like, holy cow, now I can sell this stuff because now I can see this experience with myself.

Coach Ajit (00:24:18):
I knew exactly what I felt before I didn't do it, what I was, what I was feeling when I was doing it. And what was the benefit at the end of it? So there was no experience that I didn't know of my client and my customer, and because I knew all of that experience and I was easy for me to communicate that experience because I was just talking to me, I was talking to a version of me that has different yes, belief, systems and priorities and all of that stuff in life, but they have the same kind of internal dialogue that I had. So it was much easier for me to write marketing then for Mindvalley, once I went through the programs before, instead of just writing, based on whatever the author said, and, and of course they were a lot more successful after I actually experienced the product. And that's why I experienced any product that I put out in the market. It, I have to experience it. And if I am not convinced that product's not going to market.

Jason Campbell (00:25:14):
There was an interesting experience that happened for me, very similar to you at Mindvalley, because I jumped in and I came from a sales background and a real estate background. And so coming into personal growth, I, I still remember my first day at Mindvalley. I was like, I'm so happy to be here. Everyone looks amazing. So what's the products we sell. I didn't even know. They're like, it's, it's like abundance and, and personal growth at the time. And I was like, oh, wow, I need to kind of dip my toes into it. So I dipped my toes a little bit, but there was this particular product I had to sell. And this is gonna be the only exception to the rule of what we're talking about. Because, um, if you are some version of your avatar and I see this very commonly in coaching, whereas that the avatar that you're looking to market to is kind of a younger version of yourself.

Jason Campbell (00:25:58):
And if that is the case, then yes. Do the work get to the point that you tell people they're gonna get to when they follow your framework so that you can be more confident when you sell it as well. But the caveat for me here was I was selling actually Christie Marie Sheldon's energy clearing sessions. And I write about this one in my book, because I remember jumping on one of the sessions and it didn't work for me. I was like, I, I don't get it. I don't think this is something I need. And I almost got to a point when I knew I had to launch it. I was like, I can't launch this. It doesn't work. But again, it didn't work for me. And so what ended up happening is I decided to get on the phone with all the clients that I could find that I bought it the years before.

Jason Campbell (00:26:41):
And I started interviewing them. Why did you buy it? What did it do for you? And there's one story that I, I always talk about. And again, I speak about it in the book, more in detail, but his name was Chuck. And Chuck gave me permission to use his testimonial. And he is like, Jason, I don't know what happened, but I started going on these sessions and it completely changed my life. I went to my psychiatrist and he I've stopped using antidepressants. I was able to keep a stable job. It really put me back on my feet at a time that I was really low and really struggling. And so I cannot be more thankful enough for having taken the time to purchase these energy clearing sessions. And it's been completely revolutionary to my life. And I kept having stories after stories of people getting this deep transformation.

Jason Campbell (00:27:21):
So was I excited to sell it, even though I didn't know, it didn't work for me. Absolutely. Because just like somebody who might be working, let's say in a Lamborghini dealership or in a luxury hotel, and might not be able to book the room themselves, when you start borrowing the stories of people that have had that experience and, you know, the value it provides for them, that would be the only exception to the rule, which can be very important for, let's say a coach who might be dealing with an avatar that is very different from themselves, but it wouldn't take away or give you a free pass from doing the self work. The self work is, is gonna be at the foundation. And the more you do of some of that, you'll see that everything else starts moving more flawlessly.

Coach Ajit (00:27:59):
I hear you. And, and I see the book that I was talking about was called best evidence. And the, and I don't know if it's still published or not, but best evidence was basically evidence around things that otherwise would feel like they're out of the realm of common understanding of, of people, a beautiful book. What I, I do agree to some degree to what she said. I, I don't know if I fully agree. So I would take a scenario, uh, where I would take somebody else's framework and I would position it, but I would almost exclusively only use it in scenarios where it can be empirically proven. And so it's more like a format you're running. It's more like a template that you're running more so than an experience that you're running. Let me give you an example. So here at Evercoach in partnership with Mindvalley, we run, uh, a two certifications that you don't need to personally experience, and you can run almost empirically, right?

Coach Ajit (00:28:56):
So one certification is called Certified Business Coach. It's a, it's a coach-consultant training. You don't have to have a really successful business, but you could take the templates inside certified business coach and almost copy paste to success. And that's a model that you're learning to replicate. And you can find evidence, like you said, through the entire modules, right? In, in, inside the program. And you're taught, you're given case study after case study, you're like, oh, this is how this helps. This is how this helps. This is where this data is there. So you don't have to be convinced off the sale. It's inbuilt for you. Right. But it's also because it's in the dynamics of business, it's very different than life, right? It's it's business can be systemized to certain degree. And that's what the area CBC plays, the Certified Business Coach plays in. The other, one's called Certified Holobody Coach, which is, uh, more in the lines of health certification.

Coach Ajit (00:29:49):
Again, it's something that you, you don't have to be overweight to help somebody who's struggling with weight to use the template inside Certified Holobody. Does it help if you do the whole experience yourself and see the change in your own body as you're experiencing it, apps are freaking literally because it integrates not only the traditional health education, but also integrates health education with mindset, with meditation, with all of this amazing other tools that other certifications don't consider. So, so yes, there are certain certifications that will allow you to give you that detail of framework that you can use as templates. But I would say that would be, that would be not a common thing, especially for a coach. That is not. Um, if, and not that I'm saying you have to get certified, right? I'm not somebody I've never advocated that you absolutely must certify or get certified as a person to be able to coach.

Coach Ajit (00:30:42):
You need to be more curious and intentional about the outcome you wanna create with people more so than be certified certification doesn't mean competence, but at the same point in time, if you are going out in the world without a certificate, and if you have not had the experience and you're borrowing it off internet, uh, whatever template that you're running, then you're running a risk of not only not being able to sell it, but even if you sell it to run a really poor outcome for your client, which is worse than not being able to make a sale, it's worse to make a sale and then not do what you said you were going to do, just because you didn't put in the work before. So, so my invitation is, is probably a two step first is try to do the work. If you can, if you are in that journey, if you're not in that field and you're choosing a field that is different, then at least get something that will give you confidence in the work that you're gonna demonstrate to your clients. What do you think about that, Jason?

Jason Campbell (00:31:41):
I couldn't agree more with the idea of what happens when you do get the certification. I'm gonna actually slice away the actual powerful value that comes from the certifications you get, like going through this business, coaching frameworks, you're gonna get the frameworks, you're gonna get the education. You're gonna build up these competence. This should be aware for everybody. That's choosing a framework, whatever framework you decide to choose to get certified. I think there's massive values because again, what limits most people to making sales is actually understanding and fully valuing their own competence in delivering the results that they sell that they're gonna be doing. But let's, let's put that aside and just think from a pure conversion sales methodology is the fourth love of selling is actually loving the process of selling. And if you know, and you've taken the time to understand the people that would buy from you, that they will actually want to work with people that have credentials that have certifications, then you can look at these certifications as an investment in conversion, right?

Jason Campbell (00:32:42):
Like it is if I'm going to a doctor and they're like, yeah, I, I never went to med school, but I I've studied a lot. And I'm really good. And I can make an operation on you. I'd be like, hold on a minute. My mind would actually start realizing that there's more things to doubt. So even if you take away the, the meat, and we're just looking at the wrapping that it gives you, which is having that certifications will help you in the sales process because you'll command more authority and it will help you with your conversion already. That's a big case. And I would say, yeah, if you want to portray more competence, then at least get the certification. So you can go to somebody and say, yes, I have been certified. I've done this work because your buyers are looking for indicators that doing business with you will be less risk. And I think this is one of the best things that people can do to dramatically lower that risk. So a a hundred percent.

Coach Ajit (00:33:32):
Thanks, Jason. Jason, there was whole first part of the book where you said, I think the first part of the book, you invest time in taking away the fear of sales, the whole concern around sales, and what stops us from selling. Would you take a few minutes to walk us through some of the big ideas that especially the things, and it would be great if you could give some, some potential stories that might have happened with your, with your students or clients or people that you spoke to. Because that's where I feel like coaches struggle. They struggle in being able to make the effort, to be able to get past that. And those beliefs kind of come up. And if they can see friends of theirs, which is a, the other coaches that you may have worked with, it'll be great and easy for our students to capture that

Jason Campbell (00:34:19):
Right. Well, at the beginning of this session, I spoke about a definition of sales that was done from a place of love is when you know, what you offer is so much more than what you ask in return. Then the transaction is laced with the emotion of love on both the SI buyer side and the seller side. So in the first part of the book, I start actually breaking down, well, what happens if you're not selling with love? Like what are the other major emotions that can be doing as transaction? And how do we react to those and how can we identify where we stand? And I'm gonna go through the first two quick, but I'm gonna spend extra time on the third one, because that's where I see the majority of the clients that I deal with, particularly when their coaches are at that third emotion.

Jason Campbell (00:35:00):
So let's start with one and two. I already talked a bit about this one. It's what I called shame and guilt blockages. So this is when you absolutely dread the idea of selling, because at the core, the idea of having any responsibility with the sale you're about to make would be shameful or guilty. Like this would be the complete opposite of the equation saying I'm gonna sell something for a hundred thousand, but the person's gonna get a thousand dollars out of it. Right? So if that's the equation, this emotion of shame and guilt, is it a bad thing? No, no. That's actually a good response. This has given you a clue that there's some work to be done, whereas that you need to see like, Hey, what is actually the value that you provide? What's the price point of the product. Now, like if I was gonna go and sell a pen to somebody, cuz that's the fun example they like using in sales.

Jason Campbell (00:35:49):
And I will say, Hey, you should grab this pen. It works amazing. And you'll love it. I'll just need $2 for it. Ajit, you gimme $2. You're like, great. I have a pen. You start writing. You realize a pen has no ink. It doesn't work. It's broken. You'd be like, what the hell? And a natural emotion that we should have as the seller is we should feel guilty about doing this because you made promises that you did not actually fulfill. And so if you're selling from this emotion, the first litmus test is how good's the product. Is it truly delivering on what you promise? And is there congruency there, which is actually the easy part where shame and guilt blockages become a problem is when again it's because the self work and the ideas of what we have around being a salesperson makes us have shame and guilt.

Jason Campbell (00:36:31):
I'll give you an example. If you are somebody that's going out to sell and every time you go sell, you feel like you're the let's call the most obvious stereotype where nine times outta 10, when I ask for an example of a salesperson, they come up the used car salesman. It's the most stereotypical example of a salesperson. And if not, you're gonna look at examples like the Wolf of wall street, which let's be clear. The entire movie is about somebody taking advantage of buyers and taking their money and defrauding them right in investments that weren't worth it. And so if you are someone with conscious, like I don't wanna be like that. You want to be a good humans, actually making an impact in the world. And so if your stereotype of what a salesperson is actually stepping into an identity of a manipulative salesperson on wall street or used cars, uh, salesman, that's actually giving you a crap car for too expensive.

Jason Campbell (00:37:22):
Then of course you don't wanna sell because you're stepping into an identity that is completely incongruent with who you are. And so what I invite people to do at this stage is really to see what are the identities that you could step into that you would be proud to and realizing that we're all salespeople, aji, you're a salesperson. The biggest idols that you look into is like the, the Elon Musk, amazing salesperson. If that's someone you admire, if Donald Trump is someone you admire, you cannot take away the fact that that man is a salesperson as well, but you can take some more subtle examples such as Gandhi. Like he led a movement of peaceful revolution. That is an incredible display of beautiful salesmanship. And so I want to remove any of your associations with a negative salesperson, realize that sales comes in many forms and it's done in every interaction in life.

Jason Campbell (00:38:15):
Like for me to be able to get on this podcast, I had an interaction with Ji to invite me here. That was a sales process. If you're looking for a partner in life, I mean, what is the best, most known closing line that everybody's familiar with? And most of us need to go through at least one, uh, one of us will have to go through is, will you marry me? Is that not anything but a closing? Well, again, for everything you want in life and everything you do, sales will be involved. And so now you can pick some powerful identities, think of your role models, step into that when you sell and see which ones you wanna borrow. But again, your style of selling is the way that you'll want to sell. And it doesn't need to be like the ones that you don't wanna associate with that usually helps a lot with the shame, guilt blockages.

Jason Campbell (00:38:58):
I go deeper about, you know, the, the traumas that could have happened in childhood, looking at parents saying no means no. Why like sales people resist following up. There's so much baggage to unpack there, but for the sake of this, I'll just say, look at better idols and realize we're all salespeople. So if you graduate from that, you go to that second category, which I call the fear pride paradox. And this is a dangerous way of selling. This is the, you learn all the tactics of selling, but you don't take responsibility for the result. So this would be an example of saying someone like me taking any product off the shelves. And just the fact that I have a gift of the gab, you could say, I could go and sell it and not care. What happens to the buyer. It's a very dangerous, and there's a lot of sales people that are at this level because they think this is the peak level of selling.

Jason Campbell (00:39:49):
But I'll tell you this. One's an example of myself. I had a time in my early twenties where I was selling real estate education coaching programs. And I was in the company. I felt like I was doing good, but I was charging 40,000 hundred thousand for people to become millionaires. When it comes to transacting real estate, I had results myself, not without any struggle, but I remember speaking to some people and I was selling them. And I was like, I don't know if they're gonna get their investment back, but I was so into it. And I knew what to say that I was able to make some sales and it left me with an emotion that was dark and I felt depressed. And I realized that whenever you sell from this place where you take no responsibility, this feels like an empty success. And you're selling from a place of lack.

Jason Campbell (00:40:35):
It's like, if I make this money, if I make these sales, I'll be admired. I have people will like me, but ultimately you're not making a positive impact in the world. And so it's very interesting that typically people that are operating from this level of sales are usually accompanied with, uh, mental health issues or addiction issues. And so you're seeing gambling, sex drugs. Alcohol are often associated with the stereotypical salesperson because you numb yourself to the reality that there is an energy exchange. And if it's coming from a place of scarcity, you're gonna feel that emotion or rather you're gonna want to try not to feel that emotion. So instead of fixing the problem, we'll find ways to ignore it more effectively. And again, these are the lower emotions. The problem in our society is we reward and incentivize the people who won't take that responsibility.

Jason Campbell (00:41:28):
But again, this is changing today. As I mentioned at the beginning, there's a wave of people waking up to a better way of selling. And we're almost there. It brings us to that third level. And this is where I think most of the people listening to this podcast will fall into it's called the rational sabotage rational sabotage is when you've actually graduated from this and realize, you do understand that you have a responsibility for the sales. You make a client is actually someone that is in your care. And so you have to care about the results that they get yet. There's still a fear there. And we feel like we're doing better than the previous level, because now we actually have care for the results. The problem is we don't want to take responsibility for it. So what do we do? We try to give the buying decision responsibility to the buyer and they don't want it.

Jason Campbell (00:42:20):
So we're like, Hey, so these are my services and you can pay this whenever you're ready. You can buy, just let me know. I'll give you some more information and you start like vomiting, all the data, the facts, and being like almost needy, because you're not wanting to be the one to say, I wanna move forward with this, cuz I know it will help you. And I'd love to get started today. That actually requires you to take responsibility and take that risk again. It's like love. And you have to take leadership of your clients because you're coming from a perspective where usually you can see something that they can't. And just like, if you're trying to kick your friend's butt to go into the gym. Yeah. You can use some closing techniques. Yeah. You can actually be a bit, you can say like, come on, turn on the lights, whip off their sheet.

Jason Campbell (00:43:03):
Say like, come on, we're going to the gym. I know we're gonna have some fun and you'll feel great after when you come from that is when you sell from a place of love, you've truly taken the responsibility of the sale. You are taking the risk and you're excited about the results you're gonna bring. So if I look at the rational sabotage a lot of the coaches, it's like, yeah, are you using the techniques that are necessary to demonstrate to your potential buyer that you are going to take care of them? And I think that's where most people have to do the work and there's risks to be taken and rejections to be had. But that again, with practice, with guidance and understanding that there is something better, which is selling from a place of love is really gonna liberate. Most people who think that the only alternative is to regress back to not caring. And that is not the answer

Coach Ajit (00:43:49):
Here you mention risk quite a few times in explaining that, by the way, that's so on spot, like it's super on spot. I feel love our listeners right now. Must be going mm-hmm, that's me. That is me. I, I can see myself in those words. I can see myself doing it. I absolutely see you. I, I absolutely hear our listeners kind of leaning into that a little bit more. My, my question around risk is risk is, is, you know, scary for some people taking that risk. I mean, that's, that's why we also see a lot of humans right now, struggle to say yes to relationships or even lean into a relationship. I was recently reading a study, which, which reports, no, we are not having higher divorce rates. And the reason is because people are not getting married. Because we are not saying yes because it's risky, right?

Coach Ajit (00:44:41):
People are not getting in relationships because it's risky. My question really to, to round it out is we are finding it so hard to take risk in life because of all the fears that have surrounded us, especially in the recent times, what would be your advice as somebody who of course has championed taking this risk and you have in your other life as well. And maybe we should talk about that a little bit. I mean, currently you're in Bali for the past two years where you just said, I'm gonna operate from a different country for like a year. And then you are locked in there for the last two years. And you, you are living a life where you're saying yeses, uh, or so that's how I see you. At least you say yes to, okay, there's maybe a little bit of risk, but I'm gonna go try this. What would you say to a new coach or a seasoned coach who may currently, as you say, well, it's a little bit of a risk is in their subconscious going. I don't know if I'm ready for that.

Jason Campbell (00:45:38):
Yeah. So I think there's actually two major buckets of risk, right? There's risk that is unnecessary. And there's kind of a systemic risk as well. Nothing is a hundred percent. And I think there's a comfort and a letting go element of control that we need to have. I mean, I... no better educator than what has happened in the last two years with COVID because all those plans got thrown out and you had to go back to the drawing board. But I think looking here, you know, we're in 2022, for those of you who are listening, even as the entire world shifted, you're still here and there's still some progress happening. There's changes that have happening. And I wanna be empathetic. It's been much harder for some than others, but you're still here. So that means your chapter. Isn't done. You're still on the journey.

Jason Campbell (00:46:33):
And that risk, if the last two years have shown you, anything is there's gonna be some macro changes. Like I'm not gonna lie. I'm extremely concerned about what's happening with the purchasing power of the US dollar. Like where should I be putting my savings and all these it's like a rocking chair. I think I pulled this from a movie that I watch in my early twenties. Worrying is like a rocking chairs. It's something fun to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. And so, and I know which one it is, it's Van Wilder. And I hope nobody goes to Google what that movie is because it's a college movie, but it's funny. Um, that being said, there's gonna be an existing risk. And I think there's some comfort that we have to have with the fact that nothing will ever be a hundred percent and these can be done with taking, just realizing that, Hey, I had this plan, but I'm gonna take a different path.

Jason Campbell (00:47:16):
Uh, maybe I'll drive through a different road just to appreciate that, Hey, maybe I'll get a little loss, but everything ends up being okay. There's a lot of safety nets that exist to be able to allow us to take these macro risks. And if you get started with just taking a little more, a little more of these column, nonthreatening risks, then your tolerance for it will go up and you'll start saying, Hey, I can say yes to so many things because my mind is so paralyzed with fear that it stops me from taking any of these chances. And I'll tell you the best things to be experienced in life are the rewards after taking this little risk and being okay that we might stumble. And that's fine, but let's talk about the other kind of risk, which is my God. I have to talk about my journey, which is writing this book, writing this book was extremely risky for me.

Jason Campbell (00:48:03):
Am I good enough? Have I done enough sales of all types to write a book on sales? Do I really know what I'm talking about? Do I really understand my customer? It's my methodology. Even gonna help transform people's lives? Will anybody care? Will people think back in 20 years and say, wow, Jason, remember when you wrote that, that book, what a waste of trees? Holy shit. These are fears that come up. These are risks that I had to take, but they don't need to be irresponsible risks. So what I ended up doing is I started writing all of the risks, whether they were real or psychological. And this is from Tim Ferris actually did a TEDx talk on this, which is actually doing a fear setting exercise, which is the opposite of goal setting. As you're writing down all of your fears. I did that and that's why I had these examples.

Jason Campbell (00:48:47):
Very vivid of what is the terrible thing that can happen with my book is I wrote all of these major fears down and I would do the same thing when it comes to risk is okay, you're gonna offer your coaching services to a client. What are the risks? Well, they'll be dissatisfied with the product. They'll tell all their friends that this is the worst thing they've ever purchased in their life. And they never wanna see this person again because their relationship has been completely destroyed because you made a sale and you didn't deliver on it. That can be one of the biggest fears that's happening subconsciously, but you can look at it and say, well, what can I do to mitigate that risk? In the case of me in writing a book is I hired a firm that guided me along the process with editors that would hold my hand and ensure that whatever I'm gonna release is gonna be a fantastic book.

Jason Campbell (00:49:35):
And so I felt confident and I went to invest in the areas that I knew could mitigate the risks. And I took the steps to ensure that all of those could be mitigated to realize that the only thing that was left was those systematic risks that I just needed to be bold and courageous enough to just say yes and take that chance. And so if you're sitting here and you're a coach and you're writing down, I feel like the fear of disappointing a client might be one of the biggest things that hold coaches back. Because if you make that sale and they say, yes, you need to deliver now. And that chance of disappointing can feel very real well. I think going back to some things that we suggested earlier, Ajit, I would suggest to people, then one of the things they can do is go and get certified.

Jason Campbell (00:50:14):
Make sure your methodology is delivering transformation in the process. What are the other risks that you have? What are actions you can take? Well, I could make sure that there's an onboarding process that ensures that when they start, we can really dig down and understanding what transformation they're gonna have. Oh, I can take this framework. I can get this certification. I can put in the work, etcetera, etcetera. So when you start actually mapping out these risks, these fears, you start realizing that it's not just in your head. There can be a solution to all of them. I'll add one more thing, which is a bit of a personal journey that I went through. And this exercise actually helped me in the moment of a crisis. And it was my father who helped me with this when I was doing, uh, real estate and investment seminars, actually, before that I was actually doing us real estate and everything that I had learned around how to transact us real estate, um, was from these, um, that's not sugar coated, uh, scam artists like that were teaching real estate investment seminars and everything I've been taught was sketchy, was wrong.

Jason Campbell (00:51:14):
They disappeared. And I was in a place where I had some properties under contract and I realized, I didn't know what I was doing. I was freaking out. And I went into a bit of a depression. I was filled with anxiety and I just remember, like, I wasn't sleeping. I wasn't eating. I was going crazy. And my dad just invited me over for pizza. And uh, when I went to see him, he's like, so what's wrong? And I'm just like rambling, all sorts of it's like, everything's wrong. I'm, I'm being a bit hysteric. And then he just pulled out a piece of paper. He's like, well, let's walk through this one by one. What is wrong? I'm like, well, I don't know the real estate transaction process. What I've been talking was wrong. He's like, okay, who can we talk to to fix this? I'm like, well, I'd have to talk to a title agent.

Jason Campbell (00:51:52):
He's like, okay, that's action one. What's next? Well the legal structures, I don't even know. Okay. Can we talk to a lawyer? Yes. Okay. What about the process of the transact? Can you talk to a realtor? Yeah. So one by one, you helped me make a list of the actions that needed to take. And then I actually went to get help and I went to see a psychologist and I took a bit of medication for a little while because the stressful environment that I've put been put to, I decided to go and get help. And I was able to get that help. And it got me back through. But the catalyst moment was when I decided to just write down everything I thought was a thousand things that I was worried about, ended up being about seven. And when I saw these one by one, then I went back out there and I made the decisions that were necessary to take me to the next step in my journey.

Coach Ajit (00:52:33):
Such a beautiful story, Jason and such a good reminder of how much we make up the story versus the truth of a situation. How much, when we just think about a thing, our mind will keep thinking about it and make one problem, seem like a thousand. Where else, if you write about it, journal about it. Fear said it it'll become just one thing or five things or seven things, which are much more easier to tackle than to run that mental chase that we tend to run after you've listened to this episode is to do that exercise, do fear setting, do the exercise of seeing what is it that you really are scared of in, in going out in the world and, and creating those sales for yourself. And what is it that makes you that uncomfortable that you wouldn't take action. And to add to everything that Jason said, I also wanna remind you that there is one true motivator in all of our lives, and that is progress.

Coach Ajit (00:53:28):
If we are able to create progress in anything in our life, we feel excited about that direction. The reason why you're excited about coaching today and may not be tomorrow, is if you do not create progress in coaching, if you're excited about a relationship today, and you were not excited about that relationship tomorrow is because there was no progress. The reason why you'll stay interested in the relationship in your coaching business, in your career, in your partnership, whatever that is, that you wanna stay excited in, create progress and to create progress. You must take that risk. Jason, we are almost wrapping up towards the end. I have so many open items that I wanted to ask, follow up questions on, but I'm gonna go in and, um, probably help, probably go into consultative selling. That is something that you mentioned during the course of our conversation. You said it in passing. Uh, I don't know if that's a topic that you cover a lot in the book. And of course anybody that's been listening to this conversation, there's so much more that we can do with Jason, but the best way to take your next best step to its actually doing sales that you feel good about is to go get the book it's gonna cost you nothing compared to the results that you're going to get. Jason is consultative selling the right next step.

Jason Campbell (00:54:47):
So I I'll give the five loves of selling since we've covered them in various orders. And I'll speak specifically about the process. Um, it's no mystery. The five loves of selling are the following. The first is love the impact of what you're gonna make. The second is love the buyer and you do that by understanding them. The third one is love the product, which here is where I add the caveat, which is don't fake it till you make it, make it all right, work on it, develop it, improve it until you feel that it's a great product that you can sell. The number four is actually love. The process of selling and number five is actually love the self. Now you're asking me specifically about how is consultative selling. It actually falls within the loving, the process of selling. And this is what I find particularly fascinating about coaching is because every single time you get on a call with a client you've made the sale.

Jason Campbell (00:55:43):
They've given you money. You are coaching them. Now coaching is a sales process. You're making people understand value of adopting certain habits, frameworks, ideas. So every single coaching call is a sales call into be making the person believe in a higher version of themselves. And so why, why does it seem that the coaches are the biggest ones to struggle when it comes to selling? It's a coaching call. You just need to ask for money at the end. Now it's interesting because yeah, for one, just speaking about consultative selling your sales call should sound like a coaching call, which is you're questions. You're listening. You're making them consider different perspective. You're challenging them possibly on the ways that they currently see the world and make them realize that there's a better way. The only difference is that you're not telling them to go do homework. You're telling them that they can solve it by paying you in hiring.

Jason Campbell (00:56:39):
You have to bring an example from a, a student of mine and she's amazing. And she's done so much progress. I've given her a ton of tools on how, because she felt like she couldn't find leads or clients. And so I just gave her a system of where she could find an abundance of exactly her target, avatar that we determined. And then she had an, like, she could find them. They were coming into her, her prospecting list. And we, we designed an event where she would do a webinar and then she would educate them and give them a taste of the coaching as an experience, a result in advance. And then she made me listen to the recording, fantastic delivered so much value. And then when it came towards the end, she had to switch into sales mode. So she was talking like this. And then when it came to the end of presentation, she was like, okay, everybody.

Jason Campbell (00:57:27):
Well now if you wanna work with me and you wanna buy my product and service, uh, it's gonna be $500 and then I can do this and we're doing a group coaching. Okay, bye. I wanted like the, the energy shifted and got so nervous now that she had to step into sales mode, the entire energy. And now she was more excited about getting off the phone than making the sales. And this is again, it's something that will take practice. I'm not gonna say it happens automatically. I was so proud of her because she went and did the event. And then I listened to her pitch at the end. I'm like, it's not as bad as you told me. It was when she, she finished the event, she's like, I need to go get some McDonald's and I'm feeling depressed. I think I ruined it. I listened to it.

Jason Campbell (00:58:07):
It wasn't bad at all. It wasn't great, but now I'm excited because her next event, I know she's gonna do better. And this is gonna be something that takes a bit of practice. And if I could give one recommendation is that I have an episode on my podcast with Jason Flatley, who talks about how to do webinars and how to convert from educating to selling. And there's a bit of a transition. I think the best thing to realize when you're doing consultative, selling and borrowing from his ideas, let's say it's on a one to one basis is before you get into the pitch, do a recap of everything you've actually done in the process of bringing them to the pitch. So if you've asked all the questions you've done, the consultative selling, you could just before selling, do an example, such as well, Ajit.

Jason Campbell (00:58:51):
So from what we've discussed so far, I understand that, um, you are having some struggles maybe in your career. And you've noticed that some of the people around like you completely recap the conversation and then they'll realize that, oh my God, they had so much value in the sales process, but that's not the point. The point is you'll realize that you gave a lot of value in the sales process and then the rest becomes, would you want to continue this conversation? And you think I can help you further. And it should be a nice way to transition into the close and take away all the anxiety that will happen when you make that shift. Not saying it's gonna be perfect the first time, but I would want you all who are listening to make me a promise. That just because the first time didn't go exactly as planned that you're gonna hold yourself back from doing a second time, because the benefit is that if you're starting from here, your progress will give you that growth. And then again, you will feel excited when you look at the growth because you will grow so fast. But again, take that risk, take that action. And you'll have an amazing practice as you start to not throw away sales and put it in a shadow box of a negative necessary evil in your business, but truly embody it as an act of love. That can be beautiful.

Coach Ajit (01:00:04):
So true, Jason. And that reminds me of my own journey of starting with webinars and starting with live presentations. And I used to race through it. And I was somebody who was sitting behind scenes, helping companies design their sales presentations. And I was good at that part, but when it came down to me doing it, I started doing exactly as your client did, I would trace through it. I would leave like the last 10 minutes in a three hour presentation to make an offer. Uh, and that also I'll be like, yeah, sure. If you want it, if you don't want it, it's okay. You know, you don't no pressure, uh, and stuff like that. And I only, I would say the only way to, at least for me, the only way to get there was remembering progress, progress every single time. Like just the only way I'll get to spread my message every, any way I get to impact one more life, um, or 10 more lives at a hundred more lives.

Coach Ajit (01:00:56):
I don't know how far my message can go. How much, uh, how much good I can do in the world, but whatever that is, it has to go through somebody saying yes, and it's not only a yes. Always to a purchase. Sometimes it is. It is a yes, to coming to a webinar, to coming to a free seminar, coming to an opportunity to meet someone. Everything is a sale. It is just out in our minds. We don't categorize certain things as sales. And we categorize other things as sales when we ask for money than it sell. And when it's asking for some kind of favor, it is not or whatever that is. And we just have to start to recalibrate all of that garbage that our mind has stuck with with all the beliefs that you're talking about as well. Jason here today that you just need to recalibrate that. So you can finally position yourself in a way where you see progress. Every single time you do something, you go, okay, I did this effort this time and I made a little bit of progress, and now I'm gonna do some more effort. And then some more effort, Jason, what is something that I should have asked you that I did not ask you, that you've seen as a pattern that you are like, ah, Ajit, you missed this one bit that I think coaches would really appreciate.

Jason Campbell (01:02:08):
I definitely enjoyed this interview and you've asked some very fun questions that made this very unique and different than my usual interviews. I will say one thing, which is not a question you could have asked, but maybe something I can leave the audience with is we didn't talk much about loving the impact, which is actually the first love in selling and loving. The impact is really understanding what you've already talked about, which is when you know that what you're doing every time there's a sale and that sale can be you've taken on money and converted into a client. Someone said yes to attending your webinar showed up for that webinar. Somebody decided to take your ebook book. A one-on-one consultation session for free is realizing that for every single touchpoint that you have with anybody, there's an impact that is made. And when you start getting really clear on what that impact is, it starts giving you that charge, that reason why you're selling.

Jason Campbell (01:02:59):
And whenever you're in those low moments, it's always something great to go back to. And I often encourage people to understand the ripple effect of that. Because if let's say it's just a very simple interaction, someone booked a free call with them, uh, with you. And you've had a conversation with them. And because they had this conversation, their mood was elevated for that day. What ripple effect has that had for their family, for their colleagues, if they're a leader in the way that they showed up at a meeting, which inspired other people to be more aligned and happier, less depressed, like you start realizing that every single touchpoint you have on somebody has an incredible ripple effect. And I think that once you get into a place where you start loving sales, you actually start loving the fact that the impact, the ripple effect of every sales transaction is such a beautiful thing that really is solving true problems that the world has.

Jason Campbell (01:03:53):
And so be clear on that impact. Take the time to be really concrete on when I do my coaching, this impact happens for the buyer. When I do my coaching, the world gets a little more X and then most importantly, because again, I find with coaches, it's the most forgotten piece is whenever I make a sales, the impact that happens for me, and that's not a selfish thing, you're not a martyr. You're someone that's genuinely providing value for people. And so what are the reasons you do it selfishly, you need to pay the bills. You wanna do a career that you love. You wanna be able to make the impact that you know, you're making for the clients and for the world, you wanna be able to support your family and give them nice things, be even more clear on all these different things. And I think once you have this impact manifesto from yourself, from the buyer and from the world perspective, that will actually become some of the literature that you can use in your marketing and sales material, but even more important than that, it'll become that mental reminder.

Jason Campbell (01:04:56):
Whenever you're having a dark day, that's feeling a little more sluggish reminding you, why you show up. In my case, as I mentioned, I went through a very negative sales experience and I have, well, actually Aja, you'd be familiar with this exercise we did at my valley called the three most important questions. And one of the contributions I wanted to make is I wanna see a world where there is no need or no marketplace for any douche bag sales and marketers that take advantage of people I've been digging advantage of. And I don't think any other people need to go through that. So how do we solve this problem while I want to empower ethical businesses with the practices that are empathetic because sales processes, aren't manipulative, they're empathetic because it's learning the language that is necessary for people to understand the value that you're gonna provide for them. And so if I can empower the ethical businesses to use this language effectively, then there's not gonna be a marketplace for people to be manipulative because the right companies are gonna shine using the tools that get the attention that everybody's fighting for today. And so that would be a bit of the, uh, last pieces. I'd love to share with everybody.

Coach Ajit (01:06:04):
Thank you so much for sharing that, Jason. Jason, tell us how we can get the book.

Jason Campbell (01:06:07):
Yeah, well, uh, the books just come out. So I know in the show, you're gonna put a direct link, but it's available on Amazon selling with love. You can go to selling with love.com. You'll see that the podcast is there. There's also gonna be links to the book as well. And just get in touch with me on social media. You'll see @JasonMarkCampbell. Send me a direct message. Tell me, Hey, I've enjoyed this conversation. I've learned something from me, hearing from customers or potential customers is something that brings me so much joy. And so don't be shy. Take that risk. And uh, of course pick up a copy of my book. Thank you so much

Coach Ajit (01:06:37):
For coming on for this podcast, Jason, it was delight.

Jason Campbell (01:06:41):
My pleasure. Thank you, Ajit.

Coach Ajit (01:06:43):
Wasn't that a powerful conversation? I am sure you absolutely loved what we talked about and you're going to love this book. The name of the book is selling with love, go to Amazon right now, and type in Selling With Love by Jason Campbell, or just go over the show notes and you can find the link directly to the book. I really invite you to take this book. This book is not just a book about sales. This is a book about love and expressing yourself fully and creating the impact with your clients and as exchange of energy and exchange of value in drawing and selling and creating abundance in your own life. So go to Amazon type in Selling With Love and get a copy for yourself. Thank you so much for tuning in. This is Coach Ajit and you're listening to Master Coaching with Ajit podcast.

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